Explaining Proposed CMS Legislation with Dwane McFerrin, Senior Vice President, Med Solutions at Senior Market Sales

Tim Robinson, CEO at AgencyBloc and Cory Schmidt, CTO at AgencyBloc interview Dwane McFerrin, Senior Vice President, Med Solutions at Senior Market Sales (SMS). Dwane has helped position Senior Market Sales as a market leader selling Medicare Advantage and Part D in addition to Medicare Supplement. He is responsible for the strategic direction of the Medicare product line, carrier relationships, and a team of marketing consultants who support sales in excess of 600,000 new business applications into Medicare-related products annually.

Dwane shares his involvement and thoughts on upcoming CMS legislation, explains the key proposed changes that could impact the MA distribution model, and how it affects IMO/FMOs, agents, and brokers.

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Transcript

Tim Robinson: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another edition of the Insurtech Building Blocs podcast. My name's Tim Robinson. I'm joined by my co host, Cory Schmidt. He did a fantastic job on our last podcast while while I was absent. So Cory,  

Tim Robinson: thanks for that. Sounding  

Dwane McFerrin: great.  

Cory Schmidt: Happy  

Dwane McFerrin: to have you back.  

Tim Robinson: Yeah, yeah, it's I'm excited and, and, and think we have just awesome guests today. 

Tim Robinson: Really excited to have this conversation and Cory, you're, you're just coming back from family vacation, right? You guys, you guys got away for a little bit, a little break.  

Cory Schmidt: I, I am. Yes. We made our first trip to Europe. We went to Spain for for three stops, three different cities in Spain. It was really amazing. 

Cory Schmidt: My wife and two daughters. So we we had a great time exploring the, exploring the area. And I think we're going to have to go back. It wasn't enough time. It never is.  

Tim Robinson: That's amazing. That's an area that I'd love to love to visit. So we'll definitely [00:01:00] have to get some insights from you and and definitely get some lessons on where we should focus some of our time when we go over. 

Tim Robinson: But yeah, it's it's exciting. And our guest today is Dwane McFerrin. He is SVP Medicare Solutions at Senior Market Sales, or maybe otherwise known as SMS. And Dwane's responsible for the strategic direction of the Medicare product line, carrier relationships and a team of marketing consultants. And you know, it's really a lot of, a lot of fun. 

Tim Robinson: I mean, we some of the leadership team with AgencyBloc had the opportunity to go over, spend time with the SMS team and I think it was a couple of months ago at this point, maybe a month and a half ago and really learned a lot about the business really got to, to know the, the leadership team as, as well. 

Tim Robinson: And we thought it'd be a fantastic opportunity to have Dwane join us and talk about you know, what's going on with the CMS [00:02:00] contract proposed contract year 2025 changes. And and maybe also share a little bit more about. Senior Market Sales at the same time. So Dwane, welcome.  

Dwane McFerrin: Yep. Thanks for having me. 

Dwane McFerrin: I think we  

Cory Schmidt: missed one important point of Dwane's background. It's, it's also tour guide extraordinaire, like probably one of the best the best tours I've been a part of Dwane. Dwane is a encyclopedia of knowledge as it relates to SMS in the industry. And I'll, I'll have to say, I learned a lot and it was great to see. 

Cory Schmidt: You know, what, what it looks like inside of an organization and Dwane, you did an amazing job of giving us the tour and, and also just background on the industry. So we're, we're really excited to chat with you today.  

Dwane McFerrin: We're glad that you could visit.  

Tim Robinson: Yeah. I think the, the amount of insight and knowledge that Dwane shared without cue cards or any prompts was. 

Tim Robinson: I don't know that I'd ever be able to attain that level of knowledge. So so Dwane, that, that was a lot of, [00:03:00] a lot of fun and certainly learned a lot. So now you're in the hot seat as, as you know, Cory, Cory and I were talking about, but, but the reality is We know that you're involved in a number of things within SMS and also beyond. 

Tim Robinson: So you want to give us some of your background from your, your perspective? What what the last roughly three decades, is that, is that right? It looked like, and yeah,  

Dwane McFerrin: actually this year marks 41 years that I've been in the Medicare industry. Been around the block. 

Dwane McFerrin: So I spent 17 years at Mutual of Omaha, five at Physicians Mutual in the last 18 at Senior Market Sales. So, good  

Tim Robinson: guess definitely have seen changes along the way.  

Dwane McFerrin: You know, it's an amazing industry. You know, you think about it, we're recession proof. We're pandemic proof, the demographic march has just continued and, you know, 15 years ago, only one out of four seniors could buy a private plan and now it's more like three out of four.[00:04:00]  

Dwane McFerrin: So with that has come growth in the industry, a lot of competition has come in, even private equity has found its way into our market. It has exploded in terms of opportunity and there have been a lot of newer entrants for sure. You go back, when I first started, it was Medicare supplement. That was about all you could be sold. 

Dwane McFerrin: But with creation of Medicare Advantage and standalone Part D, really three out of four people you meet that are over 65 are eligible for a plan. 

Tim Robinson: Yeah, and that, and so that, obviously has reshaped the, the landscape, right, as far as how you can buy. Products, the products that you have available to you as a, as a consumer. What do you think over the, over the last college five to. Actually, let's call it the last five years. You know, we've, we've had a lot of interesting events happen in the world you know, from a pandemic to some significant economic shifts maybe an election in there as well. 

Tim Robinson: What are, if you're to talk about the [00:05:00] last five years, what do you, what do you think are some of the biggest changes?  

Dwane McFerrin: Well, you know, certainly the private equity working its way into the market, Joe name with commercials, the television commercials have been nonstop the number of unwanted calls that seniors experienced, you know, has certainly changed how the regulators look at our space the churn and even the complaints. 

Dwane McFerrin: So as you have more and more newer players, we've had newer challenges, but at the same time, we've seen technology continue to grow. So. You know, before the pandemic, technology at SMS was considered a novelty by many, and then all of a sudden it became a necessity, and if an agent wasn't working with multiple layers of, of technology, whether that was a CRM, a commission reconciliation system, a quoting and enrollment tool, if they didn't have that During the pandemic, I don't know how they would have been able to do business. 

Dwane McFerrin: Then you had phone recording [00:06:00] and, and having that type of technology. So tech has certainly changed, but in the background, we've had challenges. We've had problems that have gotten the, the attention of regulators and legislators. And and so while it's been a, an attractive market, It's also had some, some bad actors that have come in, and so there's some cleanup that's needed, even though the regulations that are being proposed are way too sweeping. 

Dwane McFerrin: I can understand why change is, is needed. To make sure that the senior is really treated in the right way. And we really shouldn't be treating a senior as an asset. We should be treating a senior as a client. And so some correction in the industry is needed. So Dwane, as  

Cory Schmidt: you see the. Proposed changes as they are today. 

Cory Schmidt: I think you used the, the words way too sweeping, but just to give, you know, the listeners a good sense of kind of the high level changes that have been proposed. Can you, can you help us [00:07:00] understand kind of what that looks like? Yeah.  

Dwane McFerrin: Well, some of the changes don't really affect agent marketing that much like prior authorization, which is a good thing. 

Dwane McFerrin: Too many. Cases where a senior is really subject to prior authorization. And if they were on a regular fee for service plan, it wouldn't be challenged. And or result in a delay in, in being treated. So some of these, some proposed regulations are really pro consumer. But as we look at our, our, our business itself, I've always thought of the broker as the one that servicing that client year over year, treating them like a client, not an asset. 

Dwane McFerrin: And and so changes that are being proposed that would potentially either raise the cost of doing business substantially for the agent or reduce the support they're getting from their FMO ultimately would change the landscape of our industry. And we already have the effects of the [00:08:00] Inflation Reduction Act that's impacting seniors. 

Dwane McFerrin: And that wasn't done on a bipartisan basis. And, and as a result, I'm expecting 2025 to be disruptive. Just on the Inflation Reduction Act, on premiums, formularies, maybe even the network on stand alone Part D plans. And the Inflation Reduction Act will also make Medicare Advantage plans, it'll be difficult for them. 

Dwane McFerrin: Between that and their reimbursement rates to support zero premium plans, so something's got to give, I don't know if it will be extra benefits, or if we'll start seeing some premiums be introduced. I mean, so many agents are used to having a zero dollar Medicare Advantage plan. Some carriers may find that to be a real challenge for this upcoming year. 

Dwane McFerrin: So there's a fair amount of disruption happening just with the Inflation Reduction Act alone. If we go to the CMS proposed regulations, it would put a lot of costs on the back of the agent, whether it's phone [00:09:00] recording, AHIP, possibly appointment fees. It would also limit their incomes. It might create a lid on what you can get for, say, an HRA. 

Dwane McFerrin: Fee or co op possibly it could affect the ability for the agent to exceed what fair market value would be, because I think CMS is intent on saying fair market value is X. So there's been some proposals that perhaps that fair market value increases by 31. But then with that will come additional expenses that will come with it. 

Dwane McFerrin: We're not quite sure what CMS meant on the FMO overrides. Some people could interpret the 31 was toward the FMO. Some others would look at it as that was the fee that would go to the agent to offset some of their expenses. A lot of the regulations focus on the carrier ultimately contracting with the agent. 

Dwane McFerrin: And with that, all the support that would be multiple carrier [00:10:00] support possibly could be lost. You think of quoting and enrollment tools, who, who can support quoting and enrollment tools if you're a carrier? The carrier can only really represent themselves. They can't represent all of the all the other opportunities that are out there. 

Dwane McFerrin: So that objective technology support possibly would be at stake. So those regulations will come out in final form soon. I know that the Office of Management and Budget now have those final regs, so we expect them to be issued, if not this month, then early April. And and we'll know for sure. what the implications are. 

Dwane McFerrin: So in the meantime, we've been trying to tell our story. What is the role of the FMO? What's the role of an MGA in an agency? How, what services do they provide? And, and how important are they to the, really to the distribution system of the, of the Medicare agent and, and the beneficiaries? It's so important that seniors [00:11:00] get Really good sound support and tools that when an agent has a problem, they're not one of 80, 000 calling into a help desk, but rather they can get their support from, from their local FMO. 

Dwane McFerrin: So they can handle the problems of the seniors. So our concern would be is that maybe fewer agents would be in the market, that there wouldn't be as broad of a representation for multiple carriers of an agent. And it could impact the cost of products, the premium that's charged. And ultimately, the consumer would have fewer choices and less access to, to an agent. 

Dwane McFerrin: It could put a lot of businesses out of business. And and I don't think that was the intent of the regulation is to put people out of business. So that's our hope that, that the powers that be will listen and see that we do play an important role. The FMO plays an important role. So does an MGA, any intermediary between the agent and the carrier [00:12:00] plays an important role in helping support that agent and and I don't know from the initial proposed regs, if that was really clear, but And so there's been like, what, 10, 000 petition signs, been a thousand comment letters sent to CMS. 

Dwane McFerrin: I know I've had my opportunity to talk to CMS have an opportunity to talk to Office of Management and Budget later this week, been to Washington to meet with say the House Ways and Means, key staffer, Senator Grassley. And I know a number of the, our competitors have been very active trying to tell our story, whether they're a call center, a brokerage operation, is say, what is our role? 

Dwane McFerrin: What do we do? How do we provide value? What's the, what's the reason for being, if you will, of an FMO, but we're about at the finish line now for, for all of that. 

Dwane McFerrin: Yeah, that's  

Tim Robinson: great perspective. Really, really helpful. Like how you've broken [00:13:00] that down. I mean, you know, part of it, one way I think about these type things is, what, what is the catalyst, right? Why, why bring forward this proposed? Change to, to the compensation models and some of the other things. So love, love your perspective there too is, you know, ultimately what was the catalyst that got us here and what, what is CMS trying to  

Dwane McFerrin: solve for? 

Dwane McFerrin: A couple of things. I think those Joe Namath commercials and all of the television commercials that wasn't just Joe Namath that were very confusing, but also persuasive. Yeah. To some degree, didn't even talk about insurance. Most of it was about extra benefits. And I think we've confused you know, social services with insurance topics. 

Dwane McFerrin: And and I think that's added to the level of confusion. And there were so many that it resulted in a lot of churn, a lot of commercials that have [00:14:00] resulted in a consumer calling multiple 800 numbers and literally the business jumping all over. So I think that's part of it was just the marketing itself. 

Dwane McFerrin: The Inflation Reduction Act is certainly going to have an impact going forward as well. And and there's been a lot of complaints that have gone into Medicare. And so, unfortunately, when CMS gets involved, Tend to solve a problem like that with a sledgehammer. And you know, they don't know who is at fault. 

Dwane McFerrin: So they just kind of just come in with a sledgehammer and, and and get the attention of the entire industry. So they've created a. Category called third party marketing organization, also labeled TPMO. And they've included a lead vendor, which isn't even contracted with the federal government, along with a mega call center, along with a brokerage agency calling them all. 

Dwane McFerrin: TPMOs and with that they've implemented or proposed a number of, of regulations and that's that sweeping part where [00:15:00] you really want to solve specific problems, but it's been pretty sweeping. And in September, the Senate Finance Committee started really looking at the finances behind the, with the carriers we're providing. 

Dwane McFerrin: To the distribution side and then you had in October, you had the Senate finance committee holding a hearing and they brought in small carriers and small carriers feel like the field isn't level that large carriers can provide more resources and support. And to some extent, they're buying the business and the smaller carriers aren't properly represented. 

Dwane McFerrin: You also have ship offices that really think, you know, we should be talking to the consumer as your family and not treating them like an asset. And I think if you have a short call, a short introduction, education, and then a quick enrollment, that's really not servicing the customer, especially year over year. 

Dwane McFerrin: Where now you don't even know who you [00:16:00] bought from. So I think there's some legitimate reasons why the Senate finance committee. You know, had their hearing, but then shortly thereafter, CMS issued their proposed regulations and their proposed regulations were about 450 pages or so, and and it was quite a, quite an impact, and it really galvanized the insurance industry to say, are we really telling our story well, and what, what will be the actual administrative fee? 

Dwane McFerrin: And so one of the things I, I'm hoping and. Expecting to come out of this is that not only will there be a fair market value for agents, but I think there will be a fair market value for FMOs and MGAs and, you know, anyone that's providing support. And if that amount is high enough, then we can continue to offer the services that we do today. 

Dwane McFerrin: But if they gut it, You know, that's really an existential threat, really, [00:17:00] to how agents are supported around the country. And so I'm hoping for the best but of course you always have to plan for the worst as well. But we should know soon enough how that's all going to turn out. And then a little bit of a wild card was in January, CMS or it's actually the Senate Finance Committee, excuse me, Reached out to four mega call centers and one brokerage office and said, please answer the questions about how you generate leads. 

Dwane McFerrin: You're you're a lot about your finances. Show us your commercials or, or how you get in front of people, what your best responding ads are and how they responded, maybe may play a factor. In in the outcome, but we don't know how they responded. Those were not public comment letters. They were private responses back to the Senate Finance Committee. 

Dwane McFerrin: But that's a little bit of a wild card that makes the, the final outcome a little unpredictable. [00:18:00]  

Cory Schmidt: Duane, the comment you made around, you know, gutting the administration fee and administrative fees, obviously we, we know all too well, all the support that the IMOs provide to the, you know, to the distribution channel in terms of, you know, quoting and enrollment technology, marketing support, all of the things that they need to be successful as a business. 

Cory Schmidt: I mean, they, a lot of these are, you know, one, two, you know, broker agencies that don't have that kind of, you know, budget or support as the. Changes are proposed currently. Do you read it? That basically that would go away in its entirety in terms of any kind of direct compensation that the carriers are able to provide to the IMOs in that realm? 

Dwane McFerrin: Well, if you read it one way, that would be the case. And I'm hopeful that that's not how it will turn out, that there will be a fair market value. There will be an equal. Amount. So it would be leveling the field as the small carriers have requested, [00:19:00] but hopefully it's at the level that we can continue to provide the support we, we do, we've spent millions of dollars on, on quoting and enrollment and CRM and just the technology side of our business. 

Dwane McFerrin: And so that possibly an agent would have to pay for those services themselves if they're not coming from the FMO. Also the agent was likely to lose their HRA fees. If they're getting a value based care referral fee or co op some of those could be at risk So it's not just the fmo, but it's really how the agent does business. 

Dwane McFerrin: That's at stake  

Cory Schmidt: Interesting. And you also mentioned the, you know, the smaller regional carriers, which we hear about this actually pretty often as well, which is it doesn't feel like they're getting a place at the table as it relates to like getting, getting their products in front of consumers. And so. 

Cory Schmidt: Would, would it be true that CMS is trying to, to your point, like level the playing field so that those regional carriers have an equal chance at getting [00:20:00] their products in front of these consumers? Is that, is that sort of the  

Dwane McFerrin: motivation? At least to the point where there's no bidding war, right? That financially the agent or the FMO, there's no incentive to represent one over the other. 

Dwane McFerrin: Interestingly, you know, not all small carriers even want to do business with an FMO. And, or some can pay more on HRA fees than the large carriers do. So it's not like a 100 percent cut and dry as you look at it. What we really have is how does the consumer buy? How many carriers does an agent want to certify for and represent? 

Dwane McFerrin: And, and, you know, it's really hard to represent the entire industry because just the hours of certification alone would be taxing. And a lot of consumers buy off of brand name. And and so if they don't recognize the name of the company. That would be a disadvantage for those smaller regional plans, just because we see on the Medicare [00:21:00] supplement side, probably 80 percent of our sales go to the brand name carriers, and they all pay the same. 

Dwane McFerrin: So, levelizing the commission on Medicare Advantage, while that may be an outcome, I'm not sure that will change consumer behavior all by itself because you know, you say, Hey, I'm, I represent these three carriers, for example, and two, you've never heard of before. And you mentioned one that you have heard of before. 

Dwane McFerrin: It's a consumer says, well, tell me more about the one I've heard. So, so I think the advertising of the big carriers, the brand name, the, the, the brand equity that they've established. carries a lot of weight on the consumer. It isn't just the financial side of how much money does an agent earn. I think it's the consumer behavior which really isn't being addressed with those proposed regs when it comes to compensation. 

Dwane McFerrin: I don't think it affects the the consumer's thought process.  

Cory Schmidt: Makes sense. But I do think your point is well taken that there shouldn't be a motivation around, you know, [00:22:00] driving all your business to like one or two carriers, right? Because they're, they're paying a lot more in bonus or something related to volume. 

Cory Schmidt: And that's, it sounds like you agree. That's a, that's a good change that's being  

Dwane McFerrin: proposed. I think so. I think we really, again, I think we need to treat the customer like our client, not an asset. So it shouldn't be driven by how much money do I make? But it should be driven by what's in the best interest of my client. 

Dwane McFerrin: And so that's why we provide the quoting and enrollment tools so that you can really solve for, are my drugs in the formulary, you know, is my doctor in the network what are my out of pocket costs, what extra benefits are, are available that I would use. You know, one of the proposed regs would be as mid year, the carry would be required to tell a consumer that, you know, how much of those extra benefits have you actually used as a reminder that there is additional benefits available to you. 

Dwane McFerrin: That would drive up utilization. By driving up [00:23:00] utilization, it would probably drive down the number of extra benefits that are offered because the high utilization would result in higher costs. So, yeah, there's some really good changes that are being proposed that are really pro consumer. But you would like to think that, that the agent and the close advisor relationship that they have with the client doesn't get disturbed in the process. 

Tim Robinson: And that's it sounds like we're, we're recording this in the fall of March. But it sounds like we'll have a ruling on this, right? It's something. more tangible in the not too distant future.  

Dwane McFerrin: I'm expecting as early as the 25th of March. Okay. Maybe it'll go into the first week or two of April. So yeah, it, it could be very, very soon. 

Dwane McFerrin: And  

Tim Robinson: that, what comes out of there, I guess it could vary, it probably could [00:24:00] vary, right? It could be, here's some additional insights or clarifications, and then we need more time, or it could be something more definitive. Is that, is that accurate? Is that  

Dwane McFerrin: the way it can work? Well, once the final regs are published, then that's kind of baked in for January 1st, effective dates for 2025. 

Dwane McFerrin: And so, of course, once a year, they can make change or legislation can be proposed. And so that's certainly an option if the outcome of the proposed regs turns final and it really does have a negative impact on our industry, then it probably needs to be solved with legislation. And so, and we have a number of elected officials that have already questioned. 

Dwane McFerrin: You know, CMS about why are you doing what you're doing? What's your justification? So, if they go too far, I'm sure there will be an outcry, and that will likely result in [00:25:00] legislation being proposed. In the end, it's really the consumer that's impacted. And if agents leave the industry, that's going to reduce consumer access. 

Dwane McFerrin: And in particular, concerns would be in rural areas where there may only be A few agents in a particular county, and if one or two of them decide to switch to another product line or to retire it really would impact in a big way. Consumers, a lot of consumers go to Medicare workshops and or webinars, and if you just have fewer distributors in the space because of the onerous regulations. 

Dwane McFerrin: You know, that's not necessarily good for the industry, but we found ways to adapt when I think back a year or two ago, phone recording was controversial, but yet we found a way to adapt to it. Right. And we've had you know, 48 hour rule and scope of appointment. We've had a number of. Of challenges, [00:26:00] we've all found ways in many cases of using technology, the applied use of technology to, to solve a lot of these business problems. 

Dwane McFerrin: So I think that that will happen again, provided that they don't come in too much with a sledgehammer and literally destroy the support system that's been built over the years. Their carriers literally can't do. The job, if, if the FMOs and the agencies and the MGAs that they didn't exist, I don't know how the carriers would do business. 

Dwane McFerrin: I don't know how the consumer would benefit from a scenario like that.  

Cory Schmidt: It's interesting. You, you know, bring up the technology side. I know from our, from our conversations with SMS, it's obvious you guys have invested significantly in technology, Dwane. And as you mentioned, I think since, you know, since 2020, obviously there's a lot more reliance on technology. 

Cory Schmidt: I mean, people are working from, from anywhere, everywhere. I mean, our own company is entirely, you know, virtual at this point at AgencyBloc. And so I'm. Obviously we have offices, but we rarely, you [00:27:00] know, use those as a regular you know, meetup spot. It's more of a sporadic thing today. So when you think about all the things that SMS is doing for your agent distribution channel, like what portion of, of that from a budget and time and resource perspective is allocated to technology  

Dwane McFerrin: specifically. 

Dwane McFerrin: Well, we have over 50 developers on staff, so that alone gives you a pretty good sense that it's not just we're signing a contract with a vendor, and we do that too, right? So we spend millions just working with vendors, not counting the, our own employees, and what we've done at SMS, we've taken the best from the vendors, and through API, we brought it into our platform to really save time. 

Dwane McFerrin: That's been the real difference maker is we've found ways to save time for the producer. And how much time do you want to spend on part D, for example, many agents would say it kills me. It's a time suck. And and so what we've done is we've found solutions to [00:28:00] do that. And we're really proud that, you know, now we're part of AgencyBloc or our quoting and enrollment platform standalone. 

Dwane McFerrin: So if you're working on AgencyBloc, that data will carry over. into Lead Advantage Pro, our proprietary system, and vice versa. So, yeah, we continue to expand and grow with our technology. We don't expect that that will stop, but we definitely have some headwinds with the regulations that are being proposed. 

Dwane McFerrin: And I'm confident that we'll find a way, as we have been for 42 years, to stay in business.  

Cory Schmidt: Tim, I'm not sure. I feel like Dwane might've just made a press release about about an integration between our platforms. I'm not, I'm not sure though. I love it.  

Tim Robinson: I think that that happened and couldn't be more excited. 

Tim Robinson: You know, Dwane, I, what you describe is really what the AgencyBloc team, you know, what we're striving to do is help our customers be more [00:29:00] successful. Right. Be able to spend more time with, with their clients, be more profitable so they can reinvest in their business. So they can reach a broader market as well. 

Tim Robinson: And, and that. You don't do that alone. You do that with a really strong partner network, and we're really excited to have the integration with LA Pro and, you know, have a deeper relationship with SMS so that we can ensure that collectively we're bringing the best solutions and the best value, value prop. 

Tim Robinson: possible  

Dwane McFerrin: forward. Well, there's a lot of CRM platforms out there and we're pretty picky on who we work with. So we went through a thorough process and we were just very proud to be working with AgencyBloc and, and the radius Bob, you know, programs that you also have.  

Cory Schmidt: That's awesome. Thanks Duane. And I know we've, you know, even just in the time we've been working together to try to understand the, the crossover, it's obvious that SMS has a really [00:30:00] successful significant distribution channel of agents. 

Cory Schmidt: And even in a short amount of time, there there's folks reaching out and asking about, you know, when is this platform integration, you know, going to be live and when can I use it? I think that it's obvious that. Value that LA pro provides from a quoting and enrollment perspective. And I also think it's amazing that SMS and as, as an organization is recognizing that they need to help connect the dots for agents. 

Cory Schmidt: Cause that's always been a big mantra of, of ours is how do we connect the dots to all the solutions that they need? We know we'll never be. Everything to everyone. And we're not trying to be, but obviously we need to, we need to connect those dots for our customers, for the agents. So they, they can be successful. 

Cory Schmidt: And I think this is just another you know, another, another dot to connect in that, in that realm.  

Dwane McFerrin: Well, there's a lot that we're working on, you know, quoting and enrollment is what we've been known for. But also now it's the ability to integrate with really a great CRM platform that includes [00:31:00] drip marketing. 

Dwane McFerrin: We're also looking at educational tools that help a consumer learn more about Medicare so that your, an agent can be more efficient with their time or be virtual so that it's 24 7, not just when the working hours that I'm in the office. So we continue to look for solutions that really empower an agent, not to go around an agent, but rather go through the agent to help them grow their business and to apply technology where technology can help their business grow. 

Cory Schmidt: That's awesome. I think it's exciting to just to hear the things that SMS is really focused on around making agents more effective as well, obviously their time is better spent helping consult with their customers than it is, you know, things that could be more self service and, and like you mentioned, some of the educational pieces I think have been maybe missing from the industry, at least at, on a scaled perspective. 

Cory Schmidt: Like it's, it's complicated. Like I, I don't know. [00:32:00] I recently was trying to just even understand all the differences between the kinds of Medicare products that are available to consumers. Like, it's a complex it's a complex product to navigate.  

Dwane McFerrin: Certainly Medicare Advantage is, and Part D has got its own challenges. 

Dwane McFerrin: Medicare Supplements, another product line that we support, and there's fewer choices. For seniors in Medicare supplement, it's essentially G and N, maybe some high deductible G. So we're also working on how can we impact that through proprietary products or even just getting a change in how Medicare operates to where more Medicare supplement plan choices are available to seniors. 

Dwane McFerrin: So, trying to work with, within the industry, carriers as well as our competitors and other stakeholders to say, how do we improve our industry? And how does ultimately, how does the consumer benefit? 

Tim Robinson: Yeah, I think there is you know, it's a lot of, a lot of opportunity and is generated from that, right. Is how do [00:33:00] you, if you're. Cory's really good at articulating this, but if you keep the customer. At the center of what you do, right? Why, what products are you creating? What's your value prop? How can you create a greater value prop value story for your customers? 

Tim Robinson: The success will come, right? If you say focused on that and are really intentional about it, amazing things happen. And I think that is shown by the success of both organizations. And that's why I also am. I know we've said it a couple times, but that's why I think it's so great to be working together or more closely together. 

Tim Robinson: And the, and the solutions that we're bringing to the market. So really appreciate it. And I, I know when we were sitting in the office together And you were talking about CMS the legislation and the conversations and the role that you've played in that Cory and I got back in the car and, you know, we continued the [00:34:00] conversation and said, boy, we really need to get Dwane on the, on the podcast and really appreciate you coming on really insightful thoughtful comments. 

Tim Robinson: And who knows, we may have to do a follow up. After after this gets published, after the changes get published. So if you'd be up for, I'll put you on the spot, but if you'd be up for it, we would we would love to have you back on.  

Dwane McFerrin: Yeah. Hopefully I'll be back on with good news. That's right. 

Tim Robinson: That's right. So that may shape the conversation, but we would very much appreciate that.  

Dwane McFerrin: Well, very good. Thank you very much for having me, Tim and Cory. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.  

Tim Robinson: Yeah, Cory, I guess I'm going to see you along the trail here somewhere in person. So I look forward to doing that. 

Tim Robinson: You know, we have a couple of things we're going to be at Medicarians that's right. A couple other venues. So if you if any of our listeners are, are at those events or even our own block builder event. Please please swing by. Well, I'd love to talk to [00:35:00] you and please keep the feedback and comments coming as well. 

Tim Robinson: With that, we'll go ahead and sign off. Appreciate everybody.  

Dwane McFerrin: All right. Thank you very much.